Ravenous Beauty: A Writer's Workshop

I have a book proposal due tomorrow. It's my first one.

I can't say I'm expecting much--since there's rejection at every level of the craft--but I'd be disappointed if it didn't go anywhere nonetheless. Still, it's cool to have an agent interested.

Anyone have any experience with these?

Oh, I also lost my voice, so presently I'm a silent (occasionally coughing) typing machine. My wife and kiddo don't seem to mind.

This is non-fiction, I assume. If so, I don't have any experience there, but congratulations!

I've had a few agents ask for full fiction manuscripts from me, and from my experience, the whole thing is pretty much the same as waiting for the original interest, only more is at stake.

After you submit the manuscript (proposal, in your case), it's still waiting, waiting, waiting. Just keep writing other things to bide the time, I suppose.

Hopefully, your experience will be better. I wish you all the best.

Yup, nonfiction this time around, but I'll rev up the fiction proposals soon enough.

I know there's rejection at every level, but the first time I pitched, I got nothing but a card. This time, I got interest. If nothing else, it'll be more experience for next time. Hopefully writing these proposals will get easier, too.

Writing about your own writing feels odd.

Thanks for the love, Caleb. How many agents have you slammed up against? (I know one--Mr. Nine Minute Rejection.)

caleb j ross wrote:I've had a few agents ask for full fiction manuscripts from me, and from my experience, the whole thing is pretty much the same as waiting for the original interest, only more is at stake.

No one's yet asked me for a full. Did those people request an exclusive, then? I know I'd be pissed if I spent several evenings reading someone's ms, only to have it pulled out from under by another agent.

Sorry to go off-topic there; never submitted nonfiction/proposals before. I've had about 25 or 30 agent rejections and 10 or 15 publishers, all highly-targeted submissions, no scattershot.

Well, it's away.

(If I get rejected, I'll come back with an Episode IV reference: "Negative, it did not go in.")

At this point I'm just waiting to see if that great big publishing abyss spits back.

Sardonic Artery wrote:Thanks for the love, Caleb. How many agents have you slammed up against? (I know one--Mr. Nine Minute Rejection.)

With two separate manuscripts, and including approaching the same agent twice in many cases (due to having two separate manuscripts), and including publishers and agents, I've submitted 63 times, with requests for full manuscripts 6 times.

I'm still pushing along, though.

Did those requests for fulls ask for exclusives?

caleb j ross wrote:

Sardonic Artery wrote:Thanks for the love, Caleb. How many agents have you slammed up against? (I know one--Mr. Nine Minute Rejection.)

With two separate manuscripts, and including approaching the same agent twice in many cases (due to having two separate manuscripts), and including publishers and agents, I've submitted 63 times, with requests for full manuscripts 6 times.

I'm still pushing along, though.

Man, Caleb, you're a machine. Do you just have a set book proposal at this point (with minor tweaks for each publisher)?

Flash wrote:Did those requests for fulls ask for exclusives?

One agent asked for an exclusive. The others, publishers and agents, didn't specify. So, I kept sending.

Sardonic Artery wrote:Man, Caleb, you're a machine. Do you just have a set book proposal at this point (with minor tweaks for each publisher)?

Certain aspects stay the same, my bio and the synopsis for instance, but for the most part I try to focus as much as possible.

One fringe benefit about crafting each letter individually is that I get the opportunity to make it a bit better each time, instead of just going with the same 8 years of failed economi...wait, sorry. But seriously, taking the time to rework each one has, I think, paid off. Even if I'm not getting more requests for fulls, I at least feel better about the queries.

At the beginning, I'll admit that I was doing a lot of "sending the same," but quickly I started trying to be as targeted as possible. Targeted not only with the letters themselves, but with the publishers and agents I approach. I think there has been only a handful of times I've sent to a publisher without having read (and liked) one of their books.

I recommend looking at the submission form for WM Clark Associates (http://www.wmclark.com/queryguidelines.html). Their form is beautiful in what it asks for. I've been able to use the information I generated for this query in many of my other query letters. So far, without takers, but I feel so much more confident having been through the WM Clark process.

The agent said he didn't think he could sell me. So it is.

That's good info, Caleb. It seems like every level of this writing game is a numbers game filled with rejection. It's not so bad though. In fact, it actually feels like progress, if only from inside my own head. Onward and upward and awkward.

Sardonic Artery wrote:The agent said he didn't think he could sell me.

Unfortunately, that's a common response. But kind of a nice way of letting you down easy. "it's not you, it's me." Truthfully, most agents have a pretty limited sphere of genres they're comfortable pushing, depending on their experience. They're just better at some things than others. Doesn't mean you're not salable, just the wrong fit. It used to frustrate me. "But it's your job to make it marketable."

Just keep on truckin.

Yeah, I poked the bear in the zoo, asked why I was a no. He said that he didn't think the writing or the platform were strong enough.

Not the specifics I was looking for, but I imagine it's not too appealing to spend time on someone you've decided to not spend time on.

Ah, the dreaded "platform." Yeah, apparently the only people who are permitted to write nonfiction are celebrities.

Flash wrote:Ah, the dreaded "platform." Yeah, apparently the only people who are permitted to write nonfiction are celebrities.

Yeah, the agent mentioned that when we met, because we all know Nicole Richie is clearly a better writer than David Sedaris because she has initial star power. One of my favorite clips from "The Daily Show" was one of the correspondents at her book launch yelling, "Nicole Richie, is this your first time in a book store?"

Classic.

Oh well, I guess we can't blame publishers and agents for being businessmen. That means they can't (or won't) risk on the slew of dreaded unknown writers.

its just that i like lying, but so much of what i have written that people assume is me writing fiction is actually pretty verbatim from my life. (see also: that dog fucking story i originally wrote for CC, but missed the deadline)

my point? fiction? nonfiction? who the fuck cares? seriously, if your story is good enough, and implemented in a fun enough way, and none of your dipshit friends come out and say: no, thats wrong. it was a great dane! in the press somewhere, then it wont matter if you made it up, or it happened to you last week.